BMW S1000R

Main S1000R Boards => S1000R - General Chat => Topic started by: Matt on July 05, 2018, 12:45:07 AM

Title: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 05, 2018, 12:45:07 AM
Had an issue starting my bike yesterday arvo, the bike had been switched off for around 20min after my commute home, so it was still warm, went to start it again but would not fire up.

Tried switching off/on a few times as well as starting with clutch in, nothing worked. Left the bike for around 15min and when I tried again it fired up straight away.


Anyone else run into this issue?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: anoldman on July 05, 2018, 11:26:23 PM
This is a known problem with many 2017 builds - it's possibly the fuel pump. There have been one or two mentions on this forum, but mostly plagues the XR and the fix is a new fuel pump. I think they also add some heat shielding or something. BMW is definitely aware of the issue so go in and (verry nicely) demand a replacement. Good luck.

https://www.s1000xr.uk/index.php/topic,1579.new.html#new (https://www.s1000xr.uk/index.php/topic,1579.new.html#new)
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 16, 2018, 10:20:00 PM
Cheers. The bike is back at the dealer for the next couple of days to troubleshoot, will see what they come back with.

Also have a coolant leak now! Hopefully they can sort it all out under warranty.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on July 18, 2018, 12:20:16 AM
Matt, exactly the same thing happened to me last week.  MY2017, 15000km.  First time issue encountered.  Warm bike.  Battery seemed fine, and I guessed fuelling issue.  8 or so starts without turning engine over.  Walked away to look for troubleshooting guide.  5 mins later returned and bike started.  Bike has been fine since then.

Let us know how you fare with BMW, and particularly if they have awareness and acknowledge onus to replace at their cost.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 18, 2018, 12:24:16 AM
I am just over 15,000km. Bike has been with them for 2 days now, hopefully they have an update today. Did you take yours in to the dealer?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on July 18, 2018, 06:21:09 AM
No, I did not take it to the dealer because I assumed isolated incident - grit in fuel line or somesuch. 

Aside: I also try and avoid my local motorad store (Southbank Melbourne) because they were jerks during purchase.  Prefer to go to local bike shop or BMW Doncaster which is a long hike.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 19, 2018, 05:54:40 AM
Apparently there is a PUMA case for the "hot start issue", there is a heat shield they install which is supposed to fix it. Parts are not available at the moment so it will be a few weeks until it can be fixed.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 29, 2018, 11:38:51 PM
Heat shield has been installed but still experiencing this issue, back to the dealership again!
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 06, 2018, 08:45:28 AM
Happened to me again today.  Almost flattened the battery.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on August 06, 2018, 01:00:50 PM
Guys, I have this problem also on a 2015 model. I have contacted BMW Australia and they have advised my dealer of some sort of fix but dealer says that 'fix' is just a software update. Nothing about a heat shield or new fuel pump. Very odd. Bike is still with the dealer. If there is a PUMA case they don't seem to be aware of it.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 06, 2018, 02:04:35 PM
Thanks Marvin.

Yes, it would be interesting to find out root cause; i.e. why a bike that was ridden 20 mins ago doesn't get fuel during ignition. 

Today, I just persevered with multiple attempts to start it.  Eventually, when the battery was clearly struggling, I rolled the bike backwards and into my garage ready to give up. A last attempt with mild throttle started it.

Aside: my bike was purchased around 13 months ago.  So, I am bracing for this to be not covered by warranty.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: GDCobra on August 06, 2018, 09:37:52 PM
*Originally Posted by logularjason [+]
Thanks Marvin.

Yes, it would be interesting to find out root cause; i.e. why a bike that was ridden 20 mins ago doesn't get fuel during ignition. 

Today, I just persevered with multiple attempts to start it.  Eventually, when the battery was clearly struggling, I rolled the bike backwards and into my garage ready to give up. A last attempt with mild throttle started it.

Aside: my bike was purchased around 13 months ago.  So, I am bracing for this to be not covered by warranty.

Surely you get more than 1 year warranty?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on August 07, 2018, 12:31:46 PM
I'm having the heat shield installed as well so will see if that fixes the issue. Strange that it has only started happening in the last few months. I've had the bike since new (2015) and it's just started happening and then only sometimes. Typically when it's been running hot in congested traffic for a while. It's only been a bit of a nuisance of late, having left me stranded a couple of times now for 10-20 mins before it's cooled down enough to start. Battery has been checked and that's all fine.
If the heat shield did not work for you, Matt, I would be interested to know what they try next. It's not really something you can just ignore. I commute on it and it needs to be reliable (and it has been, up 'til now).
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2018, 11:01:00 PM
Heat shield did not work for me unfortunately, I have the bike back with no resolution at this stage, dealer said they have logged it with BMW and to bring it back if it happens again. It seems to be completely random and I am not sure how it is heat related as I have ridden in 45ºC days without any issues.

Marvin, how many km on your bike?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on August 07, 2018, 11:49:50 PM
My bike has done just over 35K km's with no issues until the last few months. I will try and note temperature and fuel levels when (if?) it happens after the heat shield is fitted. I agree that it does seem to be pretty random. It has never happened after fuelling up, for instance.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2018, 11:53:32 PM
Hasn't happened after refueling for me either, I noticed that each time it has happened the engine temp said 70ºC and wouldn't start again until it was in the ~50ºC range.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 08, 2018, 03:57:32 AM
Gents, I'd like to team up with you guys to let BMW know you that this is not isolated case but emerging pattern.

I have not called yet - in Melbourne are you interacting with Southbank Motorrad, or Doncaster?    Got the name of the person who knows about it?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: anoldman on August 09, 2018, 08:04:32 AM
Thought I'd chime in again, the solution is a fuel pump replacement and the heat shielding. BMW is fully aware of the issue. A guy in the East with an XR had to jump through hoops before BMW finally agreed to replace the pump. He's got a YouTube vid and has good info on the XR forum about it. So push 'em and push hard friends. Go in there and demand a new pump - bloody demand it. You might find this will solve the cold start woes as well! Good luck to all of yo'. 
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on August 09, 2018, 09:53:47 AM
Thank you anoldman. That is very helpful. In response to your query logularjason, I am dealing with BMW Melbourne (used to be Southbank). They have been very good in terms of trying to sort it out. Heat shield is on order. I'll get that fitted and see how I go. If that doesn't work, I'll go back and see about a fuel pump.

My bike sounds a bit different to the vid's of other bikes I've watched. It will try to fire, then cough, and just stop. Nothing. The lights and all are on but it won't continue to turn the engine over. It will just cut out and go dead unless I hit the starter button again.

I will get a video of it next time it happens. Did it again just last night after the commute home. Engine was hot (106 degrees) and under half a tank of fuel.

Started again after about 5 or 6 goes at it.

Maybe it's just a bit different on the pre-'17 model.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 27, 2018, 03:22:13 AM
My bike is booked for Tues 4th at Melbourne BMW to look at this issue.  I could not get any further than booking person, so unclear about proposed fix.  I did tell them that customers with both XR's and R's have presented bikes to this dealership with same issue.  I'll report back here.

She did look for recalls and advisories relating to 2017 S100R and nothing recorded.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on August 27, 2018, 10:35:34 PM
BMW Melbourne fitted the heat shield to my S1000R just last week. I'll find out soon enough whether it's fixed the issue. The non-start has happened once since but it did start within a minute after a few 'goes' at it. I don't really know, at this stage, whether it has helped or not.

I'll monitor it over the next couple of weeks. If not, I guess it's back to the dealership.

Be interested to hear how you go with your bike logularjason.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: jjsc6 on August 30, 2018, 02:48:36 PM
My bike did that sporadically when hot.  A couple of times it did it at a gas station after I just filled the bike.  It always did start, but had to let it sit a few minutes. I should point out that is “stumbled” a bit when I hit the stater as if is had a weak battery.  But then it would run a few weeks before doing it again.  And it always did it when I just had ridden 50 miles or more, so I had a hard time believing it was the battery.  Also, the bike was less than two years old and I have never had a battery issue on a bike at two years.

I finally did some studying and found a test procedure on Yuasa’s web site on how to check battery voltage.  Sure enough my bike fell below the specs.  I replaced the battery and no longer had a problem.

Here is the test I used (this quote actually from the Revzilla site)....

“You can perform a test with the battery under load (working) to get an idea of the current flowing through it. Note that this isn’t the “right” way to do this, but it’s another clue to help you confirm or deny your battery’s health. Hook up your DVOM in the same manner you did for the standing voltage test, and have an assistant thumb the starter. While the starter is spinning, observe the voltage. The starter should be running at normal speed. A good battery should not drop below 9.6 volts over 10 seconds or so”
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 31, 2018, 04:30:58 AM
Thanks jjsc.  I'm pretty sure my battery is fine - the bike always starts first time when cold, and as you say, the fault only occurs after the bike is warm (alternator has been charging it).  When turning over the warm bike, the starter  motor sounds like it's doing it's job; fuel just not getting to engine.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on September 04, 2018, 11:49:35 PM
Melbourne BMW looked at my bike yesterday.

Inconclusive and work conducted at no cost.  Sounds like they did spend some time on it:

* Extended run on bike stand to warm it up.
* Try to reproduce starting issue.
* Examine battery.
* Confirmed proper fuel pump pressure.  They removed the pump and examined it.

Only hypothesis was that non-premium fuel could be a factor.  I do occasionally use lower than 98 octane fuel when pumps are busy.  Cannot recall if my issues correlate with this - will only use 98 now and see if problem arises.

Aside: sounds like MarvinK's issue was different - my bike cranks over OK but does not start when warm (only 3 episodes so far).  Methinks likely fueling issue.  Whereas Marvin's bike occasionally did not crank when warm and battery was identified as sick and replaced yesterday.   I did independent check on my battery yesterday morn before bike service and cold overnight battery voltage was 12.72V.



Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Marvin K. on September 05, 2018, 12:30:59 AM
Cheers logularjason. Hope they sort this out for you. Yep, my bike has had a new battery fitted by BMW Melbourne. I was told last time I took the bike in that the battery was OK but that diagnosis has changed - different guys looking at it this time. My issue did seem to be different in that the bike would just cut out after one crank of the starter engine so, yeah, maybe it was just the battery. Have only had the bike back for a day but no issues so far.. I think that's probably sorted it. Happy days.

BTW, I have used lower than 98 octane in the past plenty of times when 98 is una/v for whatever reason. Have even used 91 and up to 10% ethanol on the odd occasion (the manual indicates up to 10% ethanol is OK). Have had no problems but no doubt best to stick to 95 or 98 if you can.

 
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on September 05, 2018, 09:16:47 AM
Yep, I really doubt that fuel grade is root cause. Just a long-shot from a workshop that cannot figure it out. To be fair, it's difficult to reproduce.

My main aim was to get it on the official record while bike is under warranty. Might ultimately help BMW to acknowledge issue when others report same.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: GDCobra on September 05, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
*Originally Posted by logularjason [+]
Yep, I really doubt that fuel grade is root cause. Just a long-shot from a workshop that cannot figure it out. To be fair, it's difficult to reproduce.



I agree, they'll be blaming your hairstyle next!
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: SimonUK on September 05, 2018, 03:31:05 PM
Is there any chance that the overflow/breather pipes are getting blocked/pinched causing some kind of vapour lock or vacuum??
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on July 18, 2019, 11:50:41 AM
Just logging info again so that others can demonstrate to BMW that this is a known fault...

My 2017 bike has left me stranded 3 times over the last few months.  Pattern is always the same - bike has been cooling down for around 30 mins after a ride.   Then fails to start with fuelling issue.  Otherwise, bike has been totally reliable for 2 years and I've done 22500km without other problems.   This fuelling thing has been frustratingly intermittent but chronic.  Hard for any service dept to diagnose.

These recent incidents have occurred when:
* Melbourne winter - temp is approx 15 degrees
* Bike temp showing around 60-70 degrees
* On two occasions, I was low on fuel.  Tonight it occurred again and tank was half full.

If I let the bike sit for 1h to cool and top up the fuel, it starts on first try.

Has anybody managed to resolve this via new pump or similar?
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Joe85 on July 18, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
This is the exact issue i had. So far it has been an isolated incident. Concerning that it's a known fault.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Matt on July 20, 2019, 10:16:45 AM
I have had this issue for a while now (about 10k km) and the dealership has tried multiple fixes, heat shield, software update and the latest a new "updated" fuel pump. They were able to replicate the issue during my last visit and said the fuel pressure was extremely high and preventing the bike from starting.

Below are the part numbers for the new fuel pump. This seems to have fixed the issue for me, hopefully it is a permanent fix this time.

(https://images.s1000r.co.uk/3E86292E-2208-4627-933A-6BFE4DD7F9A1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on July 21, 2019, 01:47:26 AM
Thanks for the info.

Yesterday, I got the following from a support person at Melbourne BMW:

There has been a software update for the 2017 S1000r fuelling system and we can perform that.  It would be the best way to start with as the new software can we are able to see the information presented on the issue.  Iv had a case a few weeks ago of where we performed the software update on the system and the issue has not presented itself again.

So, I'll take the bike in to see how it goes.  Will also mention that the part numbers above fixed the issue - so may be hardware not software.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Donzrx on August 15, 2019, 04:18:48 AM
*Originally Posted by logularjason [+]
Thanks for the info.

Yesterday, I got the following from a support person at Melbourne BMW:

So, I'll take the bike in to see how it goes.  Will also mention that the part numbers above fixed the issue - so may be hardware not software.

Hi guys, have a 2017 S1000RR and just experienced this same issue.  My dealer (in Wollongong) is unaware of it so am trying to find someone in the know who can help.  Do you have a contact for one of the BMW service staff that I could talk to?
Thanks
Don
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on August 19, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
Yep, Sebastian is the guy on the front desk for the bike service department at Southbank motorrad in Melbourne. He is aware of the issue because I've visited him multiple times lately as my bike continues to let me down intermittently when it's warm. He has raised a Puma matter and we think course will be replacement of the pump. Last time, they updated the software but it didn't stop the issue.

Aside: I took it in last week and they replaced rear brake risk and did all fluids. It cost me $1200 and I was stunned. I feel like I almost paid for the pump already...
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Donzrx on August 19, 2019, 11:21:27 PM
Thanks mate.
Have been stung similarly on a K1200S service.  Never went back to that dealer for servicing!
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: SimonUK on August 20, 2019, 01:01:41 AM
whilst BMW brake discs are notoriously expensive, that bill is just gob-smacking!  :005:
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Circus on August 20, 2019, 01:44:45 AM
Regarding the rear rotor, next time try this one for $156.

https://www.ridersdiscount.com/galfer-wave-rotor-rear-stainless-steel-for-bmw-s1000rr-09-10-213354

I installed on my 2015 4000 miles ago with no issues.  I am not a big user of the rear brake so surprised it needed replacing -- but the rear brake is applied when the front is applied (linked braking), and I guessing that is what caused the wear.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Freakman1118 on September 29, 2019, 06:31:38 AM
My turn now, same issue with my 2018.
Had to wait to cool down to 50 C to fire up the engine.
Apparently needs new fuel pump.

Time to go to dealership 😔😳
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: daveSun on October 03, 2019, 09:02:07 AM
Hi all,

This is what happen with my 2017 S1000R after fuel pump replacement. Do you think this is fixed?

Cheers,

Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: SimonS1KR on October 03, 2019, 06:38:06 PM
Nope.

My bike starts better than that after sitting in the garage for a few months over winter...
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Wiffa on October 03, 2019, 10:49:00 PM
DaveSun

No.

I wonder if the fuel is vaporising in the lines prior to the injectors with the pumping volume less than want is needed (new pump added). Most seem to get going after things cool down. The engine does run hotter than most.
Had a similar problem with a Yamaha years ago.

Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: daveSun on October 04, 2019, 06:08:11 AM
Hi SimonS1KR & Wiffa,

Thanks for replying. I just rang BMW South Melbourne and they thought it could be the fuel pump pressure. I will have to bring the bike back for checking.

I will provide some updates. Wish me luck. My warranty ends in November so I have one more month to get it sorted.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Wiffa on October 04, 2019, 12:50:25 PM
Davesun

Don't worry about the warranty now that you have reported the problem it will roll over until they fix it.

Good luck
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Donzrx on October 11, 2019, 05:40:04 AM
BMW has approved the fuel pump upgrade on my 2017 s1000rr even though my warranty officially ended 2 months before the problem first occurred.  Well done BMW!
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: logularjason on October 13, 2019, 10:18:36 AM
So after 15 months, my fuel pump has been replaced.

I had to visit Southbank BMW around 5-6 times which was a irritation and also nerve-wracking because my warranty has expired.  They were unwilling to acknowledge the fault and replace the pump without going through a sequence of steps.  This included trying to reproduce the fault, telling me to use different fuel, checking fuel pressure, updating the software.  Around 3 visits ago, they raised a puma measure.  I think this means it's a formal record of fault and resolution entails a process-of-elimination sequence governed by head-office in Germany.  Once the process has been conducted, they seem willing to replace the pump - but it took a fair degree of tenacity on my part to argue the case for over a year.

So, the good news is that this fault now seems to be recognised by BMW, and I believe the old fuel pump is marked as superseded.  They had a similar recognised fault for 2015 bikes (I think XRs).  Mine is a 2017 s1000r.

So, for future readers: if you succumb to this fault, march into the dealer and start quoting the known puma case.  Ping me if you need someone to corroborate that it's not an isolated case.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Donzrx on October 13, 2019, 10:29:44 PM
Thanks Jason it has saved me and no doubt others a lot of headaches!
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: daveSun on November 05, 2019, 04:24:04 AM
Hi Guys,

Finally, my bike is back to normal again.
Here was the last error they found, which according to them causing the cracking issue.

Fault codes checked:
Exhaust Flap Exhaust flap nut was was off, as it was not allowing the
correct amount of exhaust gasses to exit causing the fault codes.
Replaced and tension, road tested and issue was resolved
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: Ibbett on January 07, 2020, 01:49:01 AM
2017, just over 12,000 miles (sorry for dumb american units) -- saw this problem once about a year and a half ago, and now today. Both times called roadside assistance only to have it start right up when the tow arrived. It was warmer than it has been lately and usually the bike sits nine hours while I'm at work, but had to move it shortly after arriving today. This time I put two and two together and realized it had to be the heat. Just adding my story to the record for posterity.

Will be headed to the dealer to try for a pump while I'm still under warranty, I guess.
Title: Re: 2017 won't start
Post by: beech on January 09, 2020, 05:41:23 AM
A few years back same problem for K bikes, heat and no start. With them it was the right side switch group warping in the heat and messing with the switches.