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Offline nastyb

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 03:49:22 PM »
*Originally Posted by Shasta McNasty [+]
This is exactly how "old wives tales" propagate..."I heard from a guy that there might be a problem...but another guy says exactly the opposite"   :087:

That's why I did a test.  For sure I can't report on all possible configurations, but I did share results on one specific configuration.  Maybe others could try other configurations and in the end we could finally put this concern to rest with actual data.

I can also confirm that I did not see any issue with the GPS out of the cradle either. 

It would be very surprising to me if the OA connector--designed to support GPS installation--has such a fundamental design flaw.  It's possible I guess--electronics are notoriously tricky--but seems highly unlikely to me.  I would personally be really interested to hear any first-hand reports of problems!

Ha ha yeah I know, I was just advising what 2 different Motorrad Dealerships had told me, I'm still having it installed with the CANbus connector as my local dealer advised this is the best option anyway.

I was just wondering if we had any concrete proof of this issue but seems most on here don't have it or have not experienced it, that will do for me  :062:

Offline Robtangr

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2016, 06:25:48 AM »
*Originally Posted by nastyb [+]
The issue is when the ignition has been switched off with the power lead connected and without the SatNav in the cradle I believe. When switching off the ignition the cradle continues to draw power and keeps the CANbus live causing the battery to drain quickly.

When the SatNav is in the cradle when the bike is switched off it works correctly, cutting power via the CANbus.

This is what I've been told by a Motorrad Service technician, they recommended I connect direct to battery, however, another Motorrad Service technician at another dealer says the opposite but says it's hit and miss whether the CANbus power actually works  :155:

I cant speak for other GPS units but with the Garmin mounts I don't think the circuit is even complete without the GPS unit being in the mount, the GPS connection has a limited draw anyway so its going to quickly drain anything, certainly not more than your alarm anyway...

CANbus isn't hit or miss, its very predictable actually its no different to a powerline LAN adaptor you would use in your home. What is more complex is the BMW electronics and I'm guessing most of the knowledge of how it actually works it just delegated to a diagnostics laptop, which is why your service technicians don't have a clue.

Although they really should know better than to connect it direct to the battery, which unlike your CANbus port will always be live and will drain your battery if the mount draws any power, oh and it probably leaves some exposed pins live to your battery which if you accidentally short will not be good for the health of said battery.

Offline BillB

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2016, 01:46:36 PM »
Just speculating on my part, but I suspect the earlier CANbus implementations on previous bikes were less than 100% robust.  I bet it wasnt necessarily the drain from the connected GPS, but the aggregate drain from everything else that was still energized after ignition off.  So, a noisy connection from the earlier GPS units power connection confused the ZFE which may in turn told other modules to leave some power connections still energized?
Or perhaps the fact that the OA adapters are on the same power circuit as the license plate light, and that was energized after ignition off to allow some parasitic draw?

Offline Robtangr

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2016, 02:30:59 PM »
*Originally Posted by BillB [+]
Just speculating on my part, but I suspect the earlier CANbus implementations on previous bikes were less than 100% robust.  I bet it wasnt necessarily the drain from the connected GPS, but the aggregate drain from everything else that was still energized after ignition off.  So, a noisy connection from the earlier GPS units power connection confused the ZFE which may in turn told other modules to leave some power connections still energized?
Or perhaps the fact that the OA adapters are on the same power circuit as the license plate light, and that was energized after ignition off to allow some parasitic draw?

I'd be very surprised if random noise could cause it CANbus needs an actual message (can be as big as 100bits) which has a CRC check is done on the message so the various nodes can do error detection.
I would say don't blame CANbus but blame your manufacturers dodgy electronics.

Additionally I very much doubt the GPS node is allowed to tell power relay node to leave the power on especially over the ignition relay. I would have to attach a diagnostic node to the port but its possible the GPS cable isn't on CANbus network at all and its just a dumb wire.

I would have expected the electrical engineers to keep things simple and route nearly everything through the ignition relay anyway very few things need to bypass it (parking lights + alarm)

Given the need for complex sensors, equipment and security I would actually expect CANbus to be replaced sooner rather than later, its already 30 ish years old
   

Offline spannerz

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2016, 04:41:35 PM »
*Originally Posted by Robtangr [+]
I'd be very surprised if random noise could cause it CANbus needs an actual message (can be as big as 100bits) which has a CRC check is done on the message so the various nodes can do error detection.
I would say don't blame CANbus but blame your manufacturers dodgy electronics.

Additionally I very much doubt the GPS node is allowed to tell power relay node to leave the power on especially over the ignition relay. I would have to attach a diagnostic node to the port but its possible the GPS cable isn't on CANbus network at all and its just a dumb wire.

I would have expected the electrical engineers to keep things simple and route nearly everything through the ignition relay anyway very few things need to bypass it (parking lights + alarm)

Given the need for complex sensors, equipment and security I would actually expect CANbus to be replaced sooner rather than later, its already 30 ish years old
   

 :087: :087: :087: :087: :087: :087: :087: no idea
sk1r

Offline BillB

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2016, 04:52:37 PM »
Yeah, I didn't mean to blame CANbus itself, but rather the ZFE.  Here is a schematic from the 2006 GS, which is probably similar and in the era of when this was an actual problem:

http://www.r1200gs.info/R1200GS-WD2.pdf

The ZFE is connected directly to the battery and is responsible for power management.  I agree that the OA itself isn't on the bus, but just a FET controlled output. 

 

Offline LBJ

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2017, 12:54:04 AM »
Anyone got a part number on this tank bag mount? I also want to mount a Zumo centrally, versus on one side. The handlebar clamp on the 2017 bike prevents centrally mounting the bracket and in any case, it would be obscured by the tank bag as mentioned.  :-(

Offline Jay35

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Offline Jukesafe

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2019, 09:29:41 PM »
Hi every one!

This is my GPS mount...

Offline mexicanoob

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Re: Navigation Mount
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2019, 02:21:43 AM »
Hi there,
I happen to be particular in that way.
This mount provides much-needed symmetry.
I had it on a previous bike. Works perfect.



I got it online from Holland BikePenR
Have not installed it yet as I am waiting to install in one go other electronics I ordered (55w HIDs 5000k)
Drop by if you come to town

 


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